User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:01 pm

Congrats!!

User avatar
3D-vice
Germany

Posted Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:10 am

Hello everyone!

I've checked my keycaps, so here's the result:
Keycaps_Checked_2022-12-24_web.jpg
Keycaps_Closeup1_2022-12-24_web.jpg
Keycaps_Closeup2_2022-12-24_web.jpg
Keycaps_Closeup3_2022-12-24_web.jpg
Unfortunately, two of the sets each have a wrong key:
Keycaps_Error1_2022-12-24_web.jpg
Keycaps_Error2_2022-12-24_web.jpg
I'll contact Jim after the holidays and see if I can get replacement keys, togather with the missing set of function keys.

Merry Christmas to all of you! <3

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:48 am

Man that is really weird! With all of the extra Quality checks this project went through, it's hard to wrap my head around how this kind of thing could have happened. That being said, from the pictures they look great.

User avatar
Zippy Zapp
CA, USA

Posted Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:53 pm

Check your 'L' keys. Do you notice any of them slightly crooked? It seems a few of my Ls are slightly crooked and you can notice only when it is installed.

Now that Jim mentioned wrong rows and quality issues I have been going over all of my keys again checking the rows match the key and examining the printing. I have already found a couple issues with crooked printing that I missed the first look over.

User avatar
3D-vice
Germany

Posted Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:22 pm

Zippy Zapp wrote:
Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:53 pm
Check your 'L' keys. Do you notice any of them slightly crooked? It seems a few of my Ls are slightly crooked and you can notice only when it is installed.

Now that Jim mentioned wrong rows and quality issues I have been going over all of my keys again checking the rows match the key and examining the printing. I have already found a couple issues with crooked printing that I missed the first look over.
Thanks for the hint! I checked in detail and realized the following:

- The prints on the 'T' and 'U' keys have an offset to the right on all 5 sets:
-- on both the white and black prints.

- The prints on the 'T' and 'U' keys have an offset upwards, but:
-- only the white prints are affected, the black ones are Ok.

- The prints on the 'O' keys have an offset downwards, but:
-- only the white prints are affected, the black ones are Ok.

- The prints on the 'L' and '=' keys are slightly rotated counterclockwise, but:
-- only the white prints are crooked, the black ones are Ok.

User avatar
3D-vice
Germany

Posted Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:03 am

Hello all,

I went through the keycaps and double-checked them in detail. Unfortunately, as mentioned previously, there are some issues which I hope can be resolved. I've contacted Jim already, so I hope this feedback will help him when dealing with the factory. I would also like to reiterate that posting those issues here on the forum is for constructive criticism and staying in dialogue with other Keycap owners only. It is not my intention to badmouth Jim's excellent work!

As you can see on the two images below, 2 keycap-prints have been printed on the wrong keycap shape:
Keycaps_Check_2022-12-24_Black-Set_S-Key_Wrong-Keycap-Shape.jpg
Keycaps_Check_2022-12-24_Gray-Set_H-Key_Wrong-Keycap-Shape.jpg

The next one as a tricky one, so I hope we'll get this resolved too. As you can see on the image, all of the keycap-sets with white-color prints have similar problems with the alignment of the prints. The prints are crooked and/or have an offset. The affected keycaps are L, =, U, O, and T. Have a look at the image below:
Keycaps_Check_2022-12-30_Print-Errors_Comparison.jpg
It's interesting to note that the black prints have no or only minor problems with alignment, and these problems only show up with the white prints.

User avatar
Zippy Zapp
CA, USA

Posted Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:46 pm

I tell you it really stinks that they did not do very good quality control. Since the last posts I have been going through all my keys, which is a long boring task and have found quite a lot of keys on each set that are not acceptable. Off set printing on all my restore keys, crooked petscii symbols on several keys and 5 - 7 keys per set that are not aligned right in one way or another.

I know we are going to get there in the end, but honestly, this shouldn't be necessary at all. This company dropped the ball. I should have near perfect sets and not these OCD inducing keysets. :lol:

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:48 pm

:(

User avatar
3D-vice
Germany

Posted Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:20 am

Zippy Zapp wrote:
Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:46 pm
I tell you it really stinks that they did not do very good quality control. Since the last posts I have been going through all my keys, which is a long boring task and have found quite a lot of keys on each set that are not acceptable. Off set printing on all my restore keys, crooked petscii symbols on several keys and 5 - 7 keys per set that are not aligned right in one way or another.

I know we are going to get there in the end, but honestly, this shouldn't be necessary at all. This company dropped the ball. I should have near perfect sets and not these OCD inducing keysets. :lol:
I hear you! Since I am a graphic artist, those missalignments trigger my personal OCD so hard. :lol:

But seriously, a few years ago, when my father had his company still running and I was supporting him, I've been in contact with a company for pad printing (here in Germany) that we had worked with. The cases which we had required to be printed had a much more complex shape than our keycaps and even their test-prints for quality control had an amazing quality and precision.

I don't want to badmouth all the Chinese companies and their low-priced offers across the board, but unfortunately there is always a difference in the quality of the products and production processes. Furthermore, the overseas distance and the language barrier is also always a hurdle.

However, it's the same old song: Quality has its price, but you have to be willing to pay this price if the product then costs three or four times as much...

I think the most significant issue with the printing company is their lack in production precision. As Jim had already stated: "I can not believe that some keycap text has been printed on the WRONG keycap shape!"

But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Check out Jim's lastest update on Indie GoGo!

(...) "The factory is remaking ALL of the keycaps and will be providing replacement pieces for whatever problem(s) there are. They are NOT replacing full sets as that is not necessary." (...)

But as you said: We are getting there! :)

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:54 pm

However, it's the same old song: Quality has its price, but you have to be willing to pay this price if the product then costs three or four times as much...
This.

I think now that I'm a mid-life kind of guy my tolerance for jank is much lower than it used to be. And my willingness to "overpay" has increased a bit for things I'm passionate about.

Case in point: Lau's incredibly high-quality mechanical keyboard the Mechboard from a couple of years ago. I heard so many people complain about that product not because of the quality but because of the price. And yet there was really no comparable product out there before or since. I wound up getting two - happily. And my C64 that has one of those keyboards is my daily driver C64 . It is absolutely excellent and only brings me joy. Was it "expensive"? Yes. But it's made that machine much more fun to use and it solid as a rock. It's a professional keyboard, not a cheap plastic toy that happens to behave like a computer.

Anyway...

The fact is that in 2020-2023, realistically the only place on earth that has both the tooling capabilities and cost threshold anyone would accept for keycaps is China. It might eventually Mexico or some other place but today it is what it is. Before I pinged Jim in the early days pre-project I'd tried to locate a US-based manufacturer to make the keycaps. Guys - the tooling costs alone made it virtually impossible at the scale of sets we're talking about. The fact Jim was also able to get the type of special printing (two sides, not the cheaper single-side found on some C64C computer keyboards or the phantom Phase5 debacle) AND multiple color options made it a no-brainer.

The Quality issues have been disappointing. 100%. And I guarantee there is no one more upset than Jim Drew over what has been shipped out.

I'll be looking to see which issues my sets have later tonight.

IMG_1057.jpg
IMG_1056.jpg





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