User avatar
Hook
Ottawa, Canada

Posted Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:32 am

Right.

So I have two NTSC C64 breadbins. One has a slightly faulty 6567 VIC-II that displays jittery sprites/characters and the other has a dead 6567 VIC-II.

Looking on eBay and online shops, I realize that there are no NTSC VIC-II chips to be found. So I entertained the thought of converting at least one of them to PAL. Besides, most of the cool games and demos are in PAL, right?

So I scoured the interweebs again and noticed that PAL VIC-II chips are easier to find and... But wow... They're almost $100 CDN with shipping? Oh, wait - the 8565 VIC-II for the 64C is almost half the price. So I dug deeper and found some info about lifting pin 13 and tapping 5v from another pin to make it compatible with the breadbin C64. Interesting!

Has anyone successfully achieved this?

User avatar
Hook
Ottawa, Canada

Posted Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:01 am

The lack of replies confirms what I've seen everywhere else - NTSC VIC-II chips are super rare.

And you know what? I'd rather convert my breadbin to PAL and enjoy the vast library of demos and games out there. So I ordered a PAL VIC-II and some 17.7344MHz oscillators so I should be good to go after that.

User avatar
intric8
Seattle, WA, USA

Posted Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:11 am

Well, I didn't reply because I disagreed with this part, in bold:
Looking on eBay and online shops, I realize that there are no NTSC VIC-II chips to be found. So I entertained the thought of converting at least one of them to PAL. Besides, most of the cool games and demos are in PAL, right?
On the demo front I would totally agree, but not so much the games part. If there's a cool (new) game out there, 99% of the time it will have NTSC support. On top of that it'll likely play a touch faster and smoother, too.

If I ever feel the need to run a PAL machine I have an Ultimate64 for that. But that's it. And that's almost never the case. (I like demos but I don't actively sit and watch them all the time, hence why I've never felt the need for a dedicated machine.)

In my experience, if you need a spare VIC-II chip it is going to come from a parts machine graveyard. There are literally millions of NTSC C64s in existence. The problem is that in the last 4-5 years the prices have gone from $100 for a NOS boxed C64 to $100 for 2 freaking SID chips! It's totally nuts.

By the way... have you heard of the VIC-II Kawari FPGA? It is a modern VIC-II replacement, has some new features and even offers pixel perfect HDMI output. And, it can provide output in NTSC or PAL. In fact, you can switch on the fly if I remember correctly. It's still very much in development, I think, but you can learn more about it on this great video by Adrian's Digital Basement. Super bad ass project. Unfortunately, global chip shortages blah blah :(

If you don't have an Ultimate64, I can certainly understand wanting at least one PAL machine around so you have every option available to you.

User avatar
Hook
Ottawa, Canada

Posted Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:25 pm

Yeah, the Ultimate 64 is something I'd like to eventually have, simply because of its versatility. And I'd gladly buy several NTSC C64 machines to keep for salvaging components but like you said, prices have went up exponentially.

"untested" machines go for 200+ dollars, complete systems for 600-700, I mean what the heck, this isn't an A1200..
No wait, those sell for a grand now :?

Crazy times. I think patience is the best medicine, I'll eventually find an affordable machine with a working VIC.

User avatar
Zippy Zapp
CA, USA

Posted Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:42 pm

It all depends on timing too. A seller on eBay was selling NTSC VIC-IIs recently and I bought 2 of them for $20 each. They were from china but they were legit and worked fine.

But other then that, yeah if you can pick up some parts C64 boards for $50-$60 it may be worth it if most of the chips are still there. Usually in those cases the SID is gone but I have found some deals lately.

As to the PAL vs NTSC thing it is a common misconception, spurred on by post history UK/Euro based you tubers that preach all the games are made for PAL. If that were the case then companies like US Gold would have never been in business. In reality the majority of games were PAL and NTSC. From 84-88 US Gold brought over a lot of NTSC games to PAL land. Mindscape, Thunder Mountain, Epyx, EA, Microprose, Rainbird and a few other pubs brought over a lot of PAL games to NTSC land.

So for games it really doesn't matter much.

Demos, are another story as most of the NTSC demo makers quit many decades ago. The NTSC demo scene was always smaller but still produced a ton of productions. (See NTSCene Archive. )These days the Demo scene is 99% PAL so if that is your thing then for sure you want a PAL system.

User avatar
BloodyCactus
Lexington VA

Posted Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:43 pm

yeah I had a hard time getting the PAL chips for my C128DCR so I could have a switch and flip flop between NTSC + PAL, its harder with C128DCR because you need a crystal thats of a speed not made anymore :(

For the 128 you need the "E" version, which not many exist, VIC-II-E-N (not the PAL-B, VIC-II-E-B one which is Argentina, PAL-N is UK/AUS).. You cant use a C64 one in a 128 which makes it harder.

but finding PAL VIC-II was a real pain! I remember finding one in the UK as NOS from a supplier.

Glad you were able to nab one working chip!





Return to “Commodore 8 Bits”