Hey everyone, just read a reply Jim Sachs
made to questions from both intric8 and myself on his YouTube channel concerning his Porsche pictures. Here's what he had to say about them:
It would have been so great if he had come here to take a look and say exactly which one was his vision, but I don't blame him, we all have a lot to do and he's already doing more than enough by just reading what we said.
I have to say I'm still a little confused honestly... He mentions the wheels, so, it's a circle thing. But was Jim
aware of how Deluxe Paint did not feature perfect circles in a 4:3 environment? I believe anyone looking at them back in the day would have thought them as circles, but I've seen plenty of people point to "perfect circles" when a game is in widescreen for the Amiga, despite everything else on the screen looking correct in 4:3 - Sooooo... It's hard... With Jim
's Porsche pictures it's even harder for me because I feel like his wheels look better in 4:3 than in widescreen. But is is perfect? It's round, that's for sure. But is it "perfect"?
Indeed it is... Pretty damn close anyway. The wheels came out to be a perfect circle in 4:3, which in my eyes means Jim
meant those pictures to be in 4:3. That's not always the case with circles, a lot of circles might look better in PAL mode/widescreen, this was because of the most popular paint program, Deluxe Paint, not giving you a prefect circle in 4:3, it was mathmaticly thinking of 320x200, which is very wide. So just because a circle looks perfect in widescreen, it does not mean it's supposed to be widescreen as opposed to 4:3. There are plenty of examples where circles are off in 4:3 but everything looks correct there.
^ In PAL mode/Widescreen those wheels are not a perfect circle. Now, it's not "obviously" wrong, as in, I'm sure most people assume that's a circle even in PAL/Widescreen... But it's definitely not as close to a circle as it is in 4:3, and it's worth mentioning how my previous post mentioned the wheels looking better in 4:3 even though the car may have looked more like the real Porsche in widescreen. I was able to match the better looking circle when side by side even though I could also tell the overall car matched better in widescreen.
Given how Deluxe Paint, the most widely used Amiga Paint program, never did display circles quite right in 4:3 due to programing, I believe Jim
's circle being perfect in NTSC mode speaks volumes. There are many examples of games not having perfect circles in 4:3 but where everything else is obvously intended for 4:3, it was just that paint thing. There might be a game with a perfect circle in PAL mode, but still be best viewed in 4:3 NTSC mode. However, the opposite is not true, at least I've never seen it. If there was a perfect circle in 4:3, it could only mean it was meant for 4:3 most likely, as PAL users would have likely not had the same issues with circles. You wouldn't come across a perfect circle in 4:3 but find that everything else looks better in widescreen. Given that Jim
points to the wheels, and given that his wheels are indeed perfect in 4:3 despite issues with circles in the most popular paint program, I have to say, and it might not be popular, but I believe Jim
wanted us to see these cars in 4:3. It's strange because he mentioned basing it off of several things, including sales brochures... So, you'd think his car would line up perfectly with the real thing.
Given that Jim
didn't come over and take a look himself, we can only guess, but I believe in the context of how circles usually don't mean that much with aspect ratios and the Amiga (given the previously discussed Deluxe Paint issue) the fact that his circles are perfect in 4:3 I believe speaks louder than the car lining up better in PAL.
Who knows... Originally I thought it lined up better in 4:3 but I based that on a picture that was taken at a higher angel, as Amiga-Mang pointed out. Jim
's picture did line up better in 4:3 there, but not quite so much when the car was more in a side view, as Jim
's pictures are... But did Jim
base his art on a complete side view? Perhaps his view through pictures was slightly higher and he just made his into a side view. If Jim
had been looking at the original Porsche picture I posted and had based his artwork around that, simply making it completely in a side view, that would explain why it looks the way it does. But we don't know. I feel like I don't want to bother Jim
too much about the same thing, he's already been a super great sport on all of this.
I can't say I have the answer as to why Jim
's Porsche does not match up with the real deal, but after reading Jim
's response, again, barring him looking at himself and saying exactly what he saw, I believe what was posted here is what Jim
intended all of us to see. It's still a beautiful picture, it's just, in this case, it's not perfect to the real car. It might be odd, but I really believe that's what Jim
intended us to see.
So... Yeah, we're both right, we're both wrong. I have no passions with Porsche's, I can't afford one... I can't look at a picture of a Porsche and immediately tell if it fits with the real thing. I do know, without a doubt, Jim
's games and much of the artwork I've seen of his looks best displayed in 4:3, as NTSC Amiga's stretched the 320x200 display to fill a 4:3 monitor. That's a fact, and I've got more than enough evidence to prove this as well as words from Jim
himself on the subject. The Amiga, in America, was displayed in 4:3.
I assumed, perhaps wrongly, but certainly with enough of the past on my side, that the Porsche was meant for 4:3. Amiga-Mang pointed out that Jim
's pictures in 4:3 do not line up right with the real Porsche. Now, he didn't pick the greatest picture to prove this point in my mind, nor did he line the two up to show it, but his passion was strong enough that I took a look... and... I even took a second look. In my first look I happened to find a Porsche picture of a similar design to one of Jim
's that did make Jim
's look better in 4:3 - That was of course, slightly higher in angel where as Jim
's picture is a complete side view. So I took a second look and was surprised that indeed, in example after example of complete side views of the real car, Jim
's picture did not look correct in 4:3, it looked correct in widescreen.
I can't tell you why... I can point to other things besides the wheels though, for example, I also believe things like taillights look more accurate in 4:3. I feel the height of the the front bumper matches better with the real car in 4:3 as well as the dimensions of the door, but I agree with Amiga_Mang, the cars line up proportionally better in widescreen. Despite this, based on Jim
's words, I still believe these pictures of his were meant to be in 4:3. Maybe he looked at a similar angel to the one I looked at originally and just decided to turn that into a side view... I don't know... Only Jim
knows and I don't think we convinced him to come take a look himself...hahaha...
But given the words from Jim
, I hope anyone else who sees this and thinks it's off will respect showing these in 4:3 regardless of how it lines up with the actual car, because it's simply what Jim
saw most likely. Regardless of the dimensions, these cars were designed with care from Jim
on a 4:3 screen. I can't speak for intric8, who, for all I know got another meaning from Jim
's words... This is his post, this is his site, so he'll do what he feels is the best thing to do, but personally, and I have gone back and forth on this in a rollercoaster ride, so I hope my opinion means a little, I really believe Jim
wanted all of us to see this in 4:3, and I believe intric8 did the right thing posting them that way. And on a personal note, putting aside dimensions of the actual Porsche, I also feel, and felt from the beginning and still do, that Jim
's pictures looked best in 4:3 - Compared to only his own pictures in 4:3 and widescreen. Just looking at the two, I do feel it looks best in 4:3.
It's been a strange but very interesting look at all of this. I was completely ready to say maybe I was wrong on this "one" example of American 4:3 content. I just want all of you to see this stuff as the artist intended you to see them. I truly feel that is the best thing we can do for the sake of history. Usually, given examples of real life objects, the truth can be found, and with American games the truth has been thus far 100% the stuff was meant to be in 4:3, but I hope everyone understands my passion on the issue is for the artist. These things are works of art, no doubt in my mind. They deserve to be shown how the artist intended you to see them, and sometimes, given how everyone else shows this stuff how Europeans saw it (in widescreen), sometimes it might even be worth showing a PAL game which was meant to be looked at in widescreen in 4:3 as well, simply because it should matter a little how American's would have seen it regardless of the artists original intent. When nobody else shows this stuff how American's saw it, there should at least be a few examples of that. But, given that there's so few examples of anyone online showing American games the way they were intended to be seen by the artist, it makes it all the more relevant for those games and artwork to be shown in 4:3, lest history forever record these games in a way the artist did not mean for you to see them...
And, in this instance, it might make you scratch your head a little because the cars don't match perfectly... I don't know what Jim
saw exactly, what liberties he might have taken, and I will of course stand corrected if he ever takes a look and says otherwise, but I believe I've taken a very deep and hard look into this issue and I've asked questions to Jim
and he responded... Again, I'm pretty sure Jim
wanted all of us to see this in 4:3, and I hope everyone will respect how I came to that viewpoint. Thank you though, Amiga_Mang, for speaking up, because this issue was worth looking deeper at... I hope you're satisfied with my investigation and conclusion. I think we're both right and both wrong... It was meant for 4:3, but it does not look quite right in 4:3 when compared against a real Porsche. It's still a sweet picture regardless and I also feel it looks better in 4:3 artistically, and I do believe it is displayed here correctly, probably for the first time ever in a forum, maybe the internet (outside of JIm
's VHS video) in the correct 4:3 format as Jim
would have seen it.